Let's Talk Later
Let's Talk Later
Abuse and Addiction: A Journey Towards Healing and Forgiveness
Ever been a victim of bullying or suffered the ramifications of addiction? Then this episode is for you. On this special episode, my husband Marcel and I explore the landscapes of abuse and addiction, and their rippling effects on families. We paint a vivid picture with anecdotes from our past, paired with relevant statistics, to help you understand the different forms of abuse - physical, mental, and the often-disregarded manifestations in areas like academic performance.
As we dig deeper, we take a turn toward the societal impacts of abuse, focusing on the pervasive issue of bullying. Sharing our personal encounters with workplace bullying, we highlight the systemic changes needed to tackle it. We also delve into the power of words and the concept of trauma-informed care, both crucial to mental health and workplace dynamics. Marcel offers a heart-rending perspective on how his family's battle with addiction has shaped him, reminding us of the widespread impact of addiction.
Tracing the roots of addiction and abuse to childhood exposures and genetic influences, we share our personal struggles and the arduous but essential task of forgiving our past tormentors. We shed light on our healing journeys, and how they have sculpted our lives. We end this episode by inviting you to consider your own upbringing, the impacts of your parents' backgrounds, and the importance of forgiveness. So, buckle up for a profound exploration of abuse, addiction, and the complicated journey towards healing and forgiveness. Come along, and let's brave these tough waters together.
Hello everyone and welcome back to let's Talk Later. I am your host, Capri, and today we have a special guest that will be talking with us around abuse and addiction and its effects on families. We're sharing perspectives and doing a little bit of Q&A and having some open dialogue. Special guests, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2:Hey, what's up y'all? This is Marcel.
Speaker 1:And Marcel, how do you know me?
Speaker 2:Oh wow. I think I met you like 11 years ago and decided to propose to you and make you my wife at some point.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're so crazy. So, yes, this is my husband, marcel, and yeah, so Jaila, our other host that is usually with me on this mic, is not with us on this episode, as in. So It'll Be Just Me and Marcel today talking, because, thankfully, she does not have very much experience in this area. For that I am very proud. So let's get into it. As I mentioned, today we'll be talking about abuse and addiction, and so how we'll start is kind of you know.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to share some statistics around. You know substance abuse and addiction. And so, according to drugabusestatisticsorg and, as usual, share these links in the show notes 13.5% of Americans 12 and over have used drugs in the past month At the time they took this survey, which was in 2020. You're the pandemic right. And then 21.4%, or 59.277 million people 12 and over were users of illegal drugs or misused prescription drugs within the past year.
Speaker 1:And so when we're talking about abuse, specifically in the black communities, 16% of the child population nationally are African American children and they make up 30% of the child abuse and neglect fatalities, and that comes from the black child legacy campaign. I think when I first saw that, it was kind of alarming actually, because 30%, even though it's a small percentage of the 100%. We're just talking about African American children. That does not account for Asian American, alaskan, native American, you know, caucasian, etc. So that's a pretty big chunk of the percentage, unfortunately. So, yeah, let that sit and settle for you a little bit. So with that, we're also going to cover, you know, a few of our own personal experiences and perspectives during this conversation today, so we'll just jump right into it. So, marcel, what do you think, or not, what do you think, but you know, how would you define abuse?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean, you know there's there's levels to it, right, there's physical, mental, but I would say it's, for the most part, I guess, too much of something.
Speaker 1:Okay, so too much of something, definitely. I mean, I agree when, when I think about abuse, like the first thing that comes to mind is physical abuse. But I mean, you're absolutely right, it can be mental, it can be physical, it has different forms, right? And I think that when, when we say abuse I think that's kind of the popular definition or kind of what comes to anyone's mind is like, oh, were you abused. That means, oh, were you hit, you know, were you, like you know, in a domestic violence type of situation? And I think not often enough do we think or acknowledge the other types of abuse. Right, you know, you don't have to be physically assaulted by someone to have experienced abuse, right? And so when we're talking about mental versus physical, like you know, what are your thoughts? Like, what do you feel? Just personal perspective, do you feel that one is more traumatic or impactful than another? Would you say, in your personal experience in life, which one did you come across more? Which one did you experience more?
Speaker 2:Well, as far as I can remember, going back as far as I can remember as a child, there was definitely both going on.
Speaker 2:I was physically abused.
Speaker 2:I feel like just about a good amount of the African American community has experienced some type of you know, whether they call them whoop ins or spankings or whatnot.
Speaker 2:That was my experience on the physical side of it. It was really like seemed like I forget my sweater at school, I get a weapon, or I wasn't at school when it was time for me to get picked up. It actually had a lot to do with school. It revolved around school as far as behavior and just my academic performance. So that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of abuse, and it started physical, started off physical and then I think it became a mental battle along with that abuse. I wouldn't say I was abused mentally as far as being torn down by words from my parents, because this was my father in particular that was doing this. But you know, as a child being in like second, third and fourth grade or whatnot, the more that happens I think you're led to believe that you're clearly not doing something right and then you tend to act out in result of that, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definitely, that all makes sense. It's interesting. Why do you think I mean, do you have an opinion on that? Like you said, it was largely around school. Why do you think that?
Speaker 2:Well, when it was happening, I can't really remember what I of course, as a child, you just you don't want it to keep happening, right? But then as I got older and me and my father started to speak more about just his childhood and mine, he actually let me know that he had the exact same upbringing, and in fact it was. It was. It wasn't the exact same, it was a little more intense. The weapons or the spankings that he got was more intense, more physical. It left him scarred. To this day, versus for me. I'm able to address it with him and with you, as we do in therapy, but no, at the time you don't really know what to think. It's just evident that you're not doing something right.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll say it so for me, I feel like I so. I experienced both mental and physical abuse in my adolescence and, before I even go into that, like my mind, I'm like feeling like I should address something. So I feel like this is always personal perspective because, no, there is no popular opinion, there is no one or two statistics or beliefs that can cover the entire world, right, and so I feel like a lot of people will hear this and then they'll say everybody got whooped. What you mean abuse, like why are you calling it abuse? We all got whooped, my mama whooped me, my daddy whooped me, etc. Etc. Etc. That is one of the stigmas that I feel, and many therapists that I've talked to and colleagues and friends will agree that that's one of the stigmas we need to let go of. That whooping is abuse. It is Any time that you physically hurt, harm someone as a result of something they did that you didn't like. I mean, just listen to that.
Speaker 1:It is, it's, it's and we were. A lot of us, unfortunately, were conditioned. Some will theorize that in the days of slavery, when we were whipped, you know, or our ancestors fortunately you know for us that we weren't in those places, but our ancestors were beaten and whipped that that kind of like was ingrained in our psyche and that became our response to anger, was to what was to hit, because that's what our for generations and generations and generations that's what we've learned was the correct and appropriate response. And so, anytime you don't you fail to have a conversation and acknowledge and respect the understanding of where a child is emotionally, developmentally, and instead you choose to lay a blow. That is abuse. Let's just call it what it is, just be real, it is and it's a cycle that needs to be broken. So interject with that.
Speaker 1:And then, for me, like I said, I experienced both mental and physical abuse. I would say the physical. No, you know, I don't. I don't know, honestly, which one was more impactful. I think the mental part of it, but the mental part of it in response to the physical part of it, was most impactful. How I felt after it happened is what I feel like was most impactful for me, because I feel like, honestly, I experienced them both evenly and so with that. So, marcel, like what would you say like the abuse you did experience? Like how do you feel like that affects you now? Like how did that affect you Like growing up as a teenager and, as you know, into your manhood, and then the person you are now? Like what do you think that did for you in a positive or negative light?
Speaker 2:Well, first off, I would say the physical didn't really, it didn't really have effect on me, I would say until around sixth grade, and then it actually had an effect, so much to the point it was starting to show my teacher and yeah, my teachers were like bringing this up as far as, like you know, I mean they're acting out, I'm just different, or they just noticed something was different, and I actually took it upon myself to tell them what was going on. And again, and that's that's a little bit where the mental it's. It's not quite abuse, but it takes its toll because, to backtrack a little bit, speaking on the mental part of it, I was always picked on by kids. Whether it was I don't know, I was an easy target. You know, I was always laughing and that was a reason. Or the clothes I had on didn't, I don't know, look as nice or didn't have the same name brand as the other kids In this particular school when I was that, I was in sixth grade, my father had five outfits for the whole year and that was something I got picked on. I think kids realized that, you know, it's like those same pants or whatever. So that became a thing.
Speaker 2:So, with the mental part now, always on edge, wondering like what's the next thing they're going to be talking about? What are they going to pick on me about today? And that makes me want to emulate someone that doesn't get picked on, whether they cause trouble or they're just, like you know, a class clown or what have you. So the mental abuse made me want to be someone else, thinking that they wouldn't see that same kid that they used to pick on. Maybe now I'll, you know, be that funny guy instead of that poor looking guy or a cool guy.
Speaker 2:So it didn't really it didn't do too much. I mean, I told the school what was going on and they actually ended up calling a CPS and it turned into a whole other can of worms. And the physical abuse led me to be afraid of my father and instill fear 100 percent. Just, you know the tone of his voice. Knowing what would set him off or take him off was something I tried very hard to avoid, and when I knew he was getting to that point I got really nervous. So I don't know if I'm rambling on or if I answered the question, but yeah, that's kind of where it all started was around sixth grade and what it did for me. It just changed me. It made me want to wear a mask or just not really be myself, or a very long time.
Speaker 1:That makes total sense. This is like a quick follow up question, so it's. It sounded to me that you kind of made a turn right. So when you're talking about the mental abuse and the physical abuse, but then backing up to the mental, when you were made fun of, I experienced that as well when you were made fun of and picked on, so bullying, do you? Would you categorize that in the same area as abuse?
Speaker 2:100%. Yeah, one thing that I heard it way before I heard Charlemagne say it, but the phrase hurt people, hurt people. That was really what it always was, because again, as you get older, you realize that it wasn't you. It was what they were going through. So bullying not so much, but I definitely got picked on a lot. I did get bullied a little bit. There was. There was some physical abuse alone with it, but yeah, it's either way, it's abuse.
Speaker 1:I would agree. For me, you know, being picked on anything like mental abuse, physical abuse they're both mind altering, right. They change how you look at the world, they change how you look at other people, they change how you look at yourself. And so, in addition to being torn down from the abuses that I was experiencing in the home, the bullying and the you know the ways that I was made fun of in middle school, more so high school. Honestly, I feel like you know that transition was a bit probably my biggest experience with the being picked on, but it did change the way I felt about myself. I got a lot of remarks and comments about my body and, you know, having a child young Don't, don't even get me started that was huge, for that was like a hot ticket item for kids my age, because it's like oh, you had a kid, oh, you're this, you're that you should be ashamed. I can't believe it. Like I was a subject of the whispers, and so that changed how I felt about myself. It really killed myself, a scene which was already faltering because of the abuses that I was experiencing in the home, and then it was just like the cherry on top.
Speaker 1:So, just, you know, just bullying, as a subset, if you will, of abuse. It's really really not looked at closely enough. You hear these stories in the news about these kids in these schools and parents trying to get the schools and to to respond and you get the boys will be boys, girls will be girls, or they don't pay attention and then these kids commit suicide. It's scary, it's problematic and I mean it goes way deeper than you know. Just kind of a detention. There needs to be a constant partnership. I don't feel like y'all probably think you know we always preach him, but it's it's so true that there needs to be a constant, this systemic change with the, the households, between the households and the administration in schools, because that behavior is coming from somewhere. That's for a child to to think that or feel that it's okay to tear somebody else down based on making themselves feel better, what they're seeing in the home, how they're talked to at home. You know all of that like it's. It just creates this very nasty vicious cycle and it's it's problematic because if it, what if it were your kid? What if that picture in the newspaper or, you know, on the screen or this? These days, everybody get their news from Twitter or Instagram or TikTok, you know that picture could be someone you know, and so it's very hard to to swallow that and just kind of go on with with life, especially as a parent, you know.
Speaker 1:And so things that I went through, the things that Marcel's gone through, like I don't wish that I would, I would, I mean I would hurt somebody about my, about my kids, you know, and so it's just there's just so much healing to be done. I can't say that enough. So onto the next question. So After, so the effects of, you know, abuse and bullying. So on that same topic, like One that's big for me is, is workplace bullying. Have you experienced bullying in the workplace?
Speaker 2:I Think so a little bit. The crazy part about it is, I think it was from a woman and I Was a kind of new to the job and Me being, you know, just a joyful, talkative person I am, and that's what I've always noticed, whether it was at work or again with childhood but some reason it seemed like my joy and Me being happy and laughing and stuff just really used to tick people off. And in this particular case, I Actually started this job with a guy I grew up with in my area or in my neighborhood, and First thing she said, I think, on our first day, was like you guys aren't done yet, and it was. It was it came off as a joke, I guess, or she meant for it to come off as a joke, but you know her presence and everything. It just it just didn't, it didn't Come off the right way, rubbed us the wrong way and From there it was a lot of random things, like I, we were in a warehouse like Like packing up boxes.
Speaker 2:I'm probably I don't know 21, 22 years old or something like that and Went and got a chair To sit down while I was working in. Soon, as I got up, she comes behind me and takes the chair and was like we don't pay you to sit down and work and she's not a supervisor or anything, she's the worker, just like me, and it was. It was always her, it was always something. So that, I think, was the only time I really experienced pulling bullying in the workplace. Other than that, I think all the abuse and just the past experiences had me on defense mode, to where I felt like anybody was Trying to, I guess, trick me or or trying to Guess what you call like trying to play me or something. I was. I just always was on defense and I was always ready to either get revenge or address somebody about it because I Let it happen for so long before.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting that you bring this up, because I know exactly what you're talking about and I remember those stories that you would share, but what I think also? So not, but I think also it would be very interesting and worthwhile for you to share your perspective about your manager and Kind of how, like if you even realized that was bullying Before you know, while it was happening, because, as you were telling, sharing the stories with me, I definitely felt like she was a bully.
Speaker 2:Tom, I did the same job.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the manager was more so. That was more on the mental side of it. This was like my manipulation 101, to where she was able to Convince us or make us believe that she was doing us such a favor that, for example, if she wanted to have, like, a team meeting after work, that we would be Disrespectful to ask for overtime, or even disrespectful to say that we have to leave. Like, if we have to leave and and she wants to talk two or three hours after the shift is over, then we don't care about her, or the job isn't that important, or what not. To where? Yeah it it.
Speaker 2:It's like a, it's like reverse psychology, right, you're? You know, you're thinking like, wow, am I really that rude or am I really that inconsiderate when, yeah, I'm saying this to my wife Capri Well, she wasn't my wife at the time, but I'm telling her this and she's telling me like this, this isn't right, and I'm Still believing like, no, she's doing me a favor, she's already done so much, and, yeah, thinking about it now was like, yeah, wow, I didn't even realize it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely a narcissist, and I hope that she has changed her ways in her later years in life, because I just, I can only imagine the number of people falling victim to employers like that, managers, supervisors, what have you. That's just, that's just crazy, you know. And even in relationships, if you think about, like romantic relationships, where you have someone and they're like they buy you a car and they buy you some shoes and they give you some money, and like you thinking, man, this person is awesome and you know, few months down the line or a year down the line, it's like remember all of those things I did for you. You can't do this for me. I need you to stay here and I need you to let so and so live with you and I need you to pay for this. And then, all of a sudden, all of this change behavior comes and they're constantly throwing it back in your face of what they did for you and Another. You know just my manipulation and so just being aware of how people treat you and respond to you, and you know being okay with Responding back and saying you know, hey, that's not cool, or I won't accept that, or I don't have to accept that.
Speaker 1:Many people Unfortunately feel like they do, because they got to pay the bills. You know, I got to keep this job. I can't lose this job. You know, and I would love to actually have you back on here to talk more about your outside of job endeavors, because we're so proud of him. He just passed his exam, his real estate exam, and so big things are coming and it's kind of I'm just so proud. I'm not gonna say too much because I want to like maybe a little mini interview about how things are going and maybe talk to the Listeners about other options. Then I got to keep this job, and not saying that having a job is terrible, but you know, it's just. There's a mentality to it Because I always say I don't desire to be an entrepreneur. It just has to be the right organization, a supportive, healthy, resourceful Organization, which I'm still looking for. But anyway, off that subject and Moving forward. I think for so and for me.
Speaker 2:Well, just real quick to go back to that manager and in the Mental abuse that I wasn't aware of it, it it took effect so much or carried over so much to where you thought that the manager like either wanted to sleep with me or I was sleeping with her, or something like that. And Just because it was like it didn't make any sense to you, but it was almost like I was defending her, it like it kind of came off like like it was some kind of unknown or unspoken relationship. And Once I really realized what was going on and Decided to quit, because actually what led up to that was, I Think I was actually borrowing your car I didn't have a car at the time and and you had the worst luck with it, things just kept happening. So then I'm like sitting in the car just eating lunch on a regular day, happen to be under a tree and, what do you know, some acorn or something comes from the tree and cracks the windshield. So I'm freaking out like man there's already been things going on with their car Like I don't want to tell her, but I have to tell her. But like how, at least let me get it fixed first. So, going back to the manager. She knew someone To come by and actually got it fixed before I even got off of the ship.
Speaker 2:The day I wanted to quit I actually went and got the money to pay her back because she said I didn't need to pay her back but it just never. I was never okay with that. Oh, I never wanted people to hang that over my head. So I made sure I got the money back. But when I went to tell her that I quit, she brought that up and I'm like stop right there, here's your money, right here.
Speaker 2:And, um, I Don't remember what led up to her saying it, but when I said I wanted to leave, um, she was like, of course, I don't want you to leave, you, fucking idiot.
Speaker 2:And it was like, and she was crying and and I think that's when it dawned on me like you, this, this is this. Like something else is going on, something. There was something more was going on that I just had no clue about, and everything Capri was telling me about before Was starting to just make sense. I'm saying all that to say Before I did feel like I needed to keep the job because it was probably one of the first ones I've had, or it was like the first time I got permanent and was able to keep a job for a while, so I felt like I should hold on to this. I was getting a certain amount when I was a temp and then I got a little more money when I got permanent. But yeah, it was literally abused just about the entire time and I didn't feel bad at all when I left and just everything before started to make sense after that.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to defend myself just a little bit. Yes, I did make some comments about her possibly wanting or being obsessed with him or something, because you would say things and it was just weird like how she would respond to you, like she owned you and I remember, I think, what did I have? A wisdom tooth extraction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you asked her to leave earlier the time off to come pick me up or take care of me or something, and she was like upset.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I told her that I needed to take the day off because you had to take some kind of medicine, where they literally said, like you can't drive or anything. So I'm telling her I have to go pick her up and take her back home, and her response was, quote do you need to hold her hand too?
Speaker 1:And listen to that.
Speaker 2:That was where, like yeah, that was I think that was probably the beginning of Capri thinking like yeah, like she likes you something's up, something's up and yeah, yeah, it even had me thinking about it a little longer. Like now, that is kind of like that's weird, like it shouldn't even be, it's either. No, you can't do it because I need you to work or go ahead family first or whatnot. But like yeah, needing to know if I have to hold her hand, like it's a very snide remark and it's very inappropriate.
Speaker 2:Actually, it's just inappropriate. It's not, it's yeah. So again, that's just more evidence to not knowing what was going on until after the fact. When we think about it now, it's like, yeah, that was. That was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you have a boss that reminds you of this at all, if this resonates with you, run by a new job immediately yeah because no one needs to be in a position with someone like that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it's just, that's just crazy. I'm ever the optimistic, I like to see the best in people and it's to this day. I still am surprised by people's behaviors. Like people really do stuff like that, Like well, I mean, one of the reasons that you know Jaila's not here is she had an interview and, to you know, we wanted this to be a dedicated podcast for this. You know these topics which she does not have experience again, Clap, clap.
Speaker 1:But she was on an interview today and there was a woman who was just just rude and just very snarky, snide comments, like in interview process, and it just like always throws me because it's like really Like, what is your deal? Like I know people go through things hard time. She probably going through a divorce and might have lost her house, I don't know. But that's never to me, that's never a justification for being nasty to other people, especially someone you don't know and has. No, has nothing to do with the situation. So so I will share, unless you had something else, I was just going to share my experience with workplace bullying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just going to close with um. Just stand on the topic of abuse, right, and just the experience I had at that job, just for everybody listening, I guess, as far as signs or riff flags. Going back to what I said about that manager, you know she used the manipulation as far as like favor. She was doing the things she did. I would say always pay attention to stuff like that.
Speaker 2:In my case, again, I was in a bad relationship before I met my wife and things got so bad to where kind of like carried over at work and she kept me hired there even though all of this stuff was going on. So that's why I felt like she was always doing me this favor, because I'm thinking she could have fired me and she didn't, and so I'm kind of just letting things happen or whatever she needed. I feel like I'm in debt to her. So just always pay attention to um, I guess, the income and the outcome, especially when it comes to a supervisor or a boss or whatnot, because you know slavery is still alive and well. Whether you're getting whipped or not, it's still slavery.
Speaker 1:So yeah, word up. So for me, I have experienced, so I've worked at the same organization for a lot of years and before that I worked at startups and retail and things like that. I think, just in general, I have a bunch of like little instances where you know I've been with bosses who were, who definitely brought their emotions to work and you could tell that everything you can tell when somebody's an overshare, that they're probably bringing all of that emotion to work when they come and complain about their relationship, or oh, that's, you know, I'm waiting for him to propose and he hasn't proposed yet. Or oh, my kids, this there's. There's a fine line between getting to know someone and building relationship and trust and oversharing, for you know different reasons, you know attachment styles or trauma or PTSD or whatever. But unfortunately, I had the opportunity to work with several women who had, you know, difficulties in life and chose to bring those to work and so as a result, you know I was yelled at, you know the whole finger wagging when you're telling your like your dog, no, don't be on the carpet. That was done to me in my face, and how dare I? And I've had missed opportunities with other positions because, you know my supervisor chose to tell them I was not ready to move forward, solely because they wanted to keep me on board and didn't want to deal with recruitment and retraining. I've I've heard, you know faculty professors, people that are supposed to be experts, and you know the leaders of their areas of research, say you know, as far as, like you know, black people I mean African Americans or whatever they want to call themselves like make comments like that. That wasn't directly to me, I was just passing.
Speaker 1:I've seen situations where you know employers want to get rid of an employee. This one time we had this employee who she was struggling to start. She was very early in the position and just needed some extra support and all they kept talking about. They talked so freely. It's kind of crazy because you know you would think people wouldn't be so free speaking all the time, but they talked so freely about everything and they were saying how they, how do we get rid of her? Like, what's the best way to just get rid of her? You know we get her to quit, and so they were basically talking about piling more work onto this woman so she would just quit, and it it killed me to hear it and I didn't say anything because I was afraid of losing my job, and so it was right before the holidays this lady had two or three kids and you know it, it worked. They piled so much on her and she got super stressed out and she was like I'm sorry, I can't do it, and she felt guilty. She's crying that she couldn't do it All the while. They intentionally did this to her and it was just mind blowing.
Speaker 1:Um, I wonder if I can tell somebody now. Anyway, um, so I've definitely seen some things, um, especially working in HR. Obviously, for compliance reasons, I can't delve into all of that stuff, but there's, there's a huge disparity in organizational practices and when it comes to mental health and just the good treatment of people, it's, it's sickening, honestly. Um so, but as far as, yeah, from my experience, it's just, you know how I was talked to and you know there was also this one time for me where I was, you know, telling an employer. You know, hey, I'm pretty overwhelmed in this area. Is there a way that we can take this part of my job and spread it out, the way these other parts are spread? Very similar situation, very similar project. And I was told well, how about. We just talk about ways to make you more efficient, and I felt like that was like the the, the stick that broke the camel's back for me. Um, it, just, it, just. I just didn't understand, like I felt unseen, I felt unheard, I felt unsupported, um, and I don't know if that that is intentional or not, but, um, people need to be very mindful and aware of the power of their words and, um, you know the impact it can have on another person's mental health and wellbeing.
Speaker 1:Um, there's this thing I've been kind of reading about called trauma informed care, and there are, slowly but surely, a lot of organizations that are training their employees on how to be more trauma informed, and it's basically saying that, um, it's, the definition is to recognize the prevalence of ACEs. Aces are, um what we've talked about on a previous episode, basically adverse childhood experiences. Um, so, be aware of that prevalence and the behaviors that can be a result of the trauma, and in building respect and kindness, um are the keys to helping with recovery. So, basically, moving through life with the understanding that people are very likely, you know, traumatized from something that could have happened in their earlier years and building policies around that and, you know, providing resources, um, and, and you know, wellness initiatives for employees to have access and resource resources too, because nine, eight, seven depends on which generation you're looking at seven times out of 10. The employee is not going to tell you that.
Speaker 1:You know, the way you're talking to me is a is is triggering, the way that you know you're not seeing me, you're not hearing me, I'm, I'm stressed, I'm having high anxiety levels, because to them that means, or they feel that that means you can't do the job, and most people, in America especially, are one paycheck away from being homeless, and so they feel like they have to stay at this job and they have to succumb to whatever treatment that is being kind of brought down on them. It's really sad and and I don't mean to I digress because this is I think I'm starting to think that this may be something I'm a little passionate about. But we won't even jump on that train yet. But I definitely wanted to mention the trauma informed care piece. So we're going to take a little bit of a turn in our the last part of our hour here. So, marcel, can you talk about? So we're going to jump over to addiction a little bit, and so, regarding addiction? Was anyone close to you or in your family, or not, you know, passed from addiction?
Speaker 2:You said passed Like passed away from it.
Speaker 2:Um… Not that I don't think I know of anyone that passed away from addiction, but I definitely know I Found out later on in life of all of my family members that were addicted to any type of substance abuse. I'm included my father. I think alcoholism and some type of drug abuse was common, whether it was on my mother side or my father side. It was both sides, um, and I'm sure there probably have been a few deaths due to it, but, um, I Don't know of anyone that that died from some of this abuse.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I mean, yep, that's, that's totally fine and it's probably good, because that answer is definitely different for me. But you, I mean, let's just talk you know about the impacts of, you know even what you discovered or were Exposed to, you know on your family and on your yourself, and you know how you experience it today.
Speaker 2:So my first Time I was exposed to I mean, well, I don't really, I don't really count marijuana as a drug, but I do count it as something you can definitely abuse and that was something I was exposed to, I think, before Anything else. My father would Definitely smoke every day, my sister smoke, um, my mother smoked cigarettes. So, um, for me it was like I Didn't like the smell of cigarettes and I noticed that on my father's smoke it was. It was a different smell and that was like kind of curious. And then you know, I'm an 80s baby, born to 88.
Speaker 2:So you know, then Friday comes out and you know, as we get older, a lot of other people we grew up with they probably start smoking. And then you get curious. So, um, I Was always kind of curious. I pretty much knew At some point I was probably gonna try to smoke some weed and then when it happened, it didn't really stop. Honestly, until a month ago, maybe even two. It just became a habit. Um, but I Was exposed to so much though I mean I found Crack Somewhere in my father's house I don't even remember how old I was and I thought it was like somebody's tooth or something.
Speaker 2:I remember asking them if they were teeth, just by because of the way they looked and Later on in life. And he actually told me that he remembered that and just was one one of the things he wasn't proud of um, I Was, I was selling it myself in high school. Kids in high school was popping pills, eat ecstasy pills, so there was a lot of exposure. But, um, I Wasn't really as curious as Most of the kids I grew up around that they. They kind of just jumped into it. I was a little Cautious about it. But, um, it was always a lot of exposure very early on and as far as learning about it, it was just a matter of like, kind of Like. Life did that for me just seeing people I knew or People that I remember, like my parents, being around and seeing where they were later on in life.
Speaker 1:No, um, I think for me it's, it's, it's really, it's really different in that. So, like I said, I know so. My aunt, my great aunt, passed from an overdose when I was in middle school. Early middle school my grandmother passed, not from an overdose but prolonged use of drugs. You know, your important organs start failing and Can't really hold on anymore. My great aunt passed basically from the same thing. Her body was just warring down and tore down from alcohol and drugs.
Speaker 1:I, unfortunately, in my childhood I grew up around a ton of drug addicts and alcoholics a ton. And I only learned this year that there are, you know, support groups for children of alcohol and drug abusers. I thought it was just groups for those doing it. So it's called ACA, if you're interested adult children of alcoholic and other you know disorders, parents, basically. But it's ACA.
Speaker 1:But anyway, there was this one time that my aunt who passed from an overdose, she brought me back some McDonald's and she's like here, here's your food. And I grabbed the bag and I go to reach my little hand in there. I'm like nine, ten maybe, or on there, and I stop and I pull my hand back and I look in the bag First because I'm like, oh wait, you know, I don't know, some, I don't know what it was divine intervention, my spirit guys, whatever it was, I appreciate it now looking there and there was an exposed needle in there and you know they were I don't know the difference doing crack, heroine, but whichever one you shoot up, that's that was there. The people around me, I guess that was their drug of choice and I Don't know if it was used, prepared to be used, I don't know. But whatever, whatever it could have poked me, like it was, there was no cap on it, it was just there and she was probably high and not being careful and who knows, who knows. But I think I just screamed and threw away the bag and my grandma was like what's going on? And I told her and, and she yelled at her put her out and something. You know, I don't know something crazy like that.
Speaker 1:But I Didn't truly understand what it was until Teen years and by that time I just tried to block it out because it was like Like what the heck, you know? Like just all of that is just like a mess, like I never want to do this to myself, I never want to use drugs. They made absolute, absolute pools of themselves, like it was from from nodding out just to to running around the house booty naked to you know, almost burning the house down because they were in a nod and forgot that the stove was on. You know, I'm saying like, and as a child I used to yeah, marcel's, you know, making make it a face over here, because I think you probably have some, some stories similar to that, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so I don't know if alcoholism was in fact the reason why, but my grandmother house burned down from one of my aunts leaving the stove on and she was an alcoholic, and that, like the house, literally burned to a crisp. So yeah, that is an experience of mine that at the time had no idea, but Every you know, my mother, my sister, those that knew her, that's what, that's what they say, that they say that's the reason was was the alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's so sad, because, you know, imagine somebody got trapped inside. Oh, I mean, just don't imagine, but it's just, it's just very unfortunate that you know, it's another kind of I feel like us, as black people, we joke things away to make it more palatable. You know, it's like everybody got a cracker uncle, or everybody got a drunk auntie and it's like, yeah, that's sad, it's that's, that's, that's terrible. You know, like we come from that era, the, I guess the cracker or whatever, where, yeah, like all of our parents, grandparents, or maybe maybe grandparents more in my age, for our generation, were were users. You know, I'm saying cuz that was the the 80s, right, wasn't that the cracker?
Speaker 2:and yeah, yeah that's what everybody says. But the crazy part about that was I was oblivious the whole time, not knowing that my father Was, was on heroin and everything. At that time, when I was young, my mother and my sister would always tell me that he was on drugs and I, you know, besides, the one time I just was, I just explained when I found something I thought we was all he ever did, and they were always telling me like, boy, are we telling you if your father used to fool around with with different drugs?
Speaker 2:so, while Capri is saying that people were like, everybody got one of those, I'm thinking like well, that while it may be true, like I couldn't imagine if one of my parents was Doing something like that and it was in fact going on the entire time. So, yeah, I mean it's a trick how it's one thing to hear about us, it's another thing when it hits home and when it's like that close to you and you just never had any clue and almost Wonder why certain things I think they call it like an addictive Personality or an addictive manner or whatnot to where it's that one thing that's just too much of a good thing. I think that's what had me kind of like Really hooked on smoking at one. One part of it was habit, but another thing was like it was just so much of a good thing it just became a part of my life, like Whatever I was doing, it needed to be around. If I'm enjoying myself, I needed to smoke. If I was upset, I should probably smoke and it it seemed like something that wasn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 2:But talking about abuse and addiction, again, just stand on that topic. Um, addiction isn't you know? It's not spelled out for you, and I think when you're, when you are at the point where you are addicted, you're under the belief that you're not, and you're also under the belief that you have more control over it. Then you think when in fact, it has way more control over you than you do of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. That's the perfect segue into my next question. I mentioned addictive behaviors or no addictive personality or whatever. So there is this research center called learn genetics in Utah and they claim that 40 to 60% Of addiction risk is based on genetics. Do you agree or disagree?
Speaker 2:I, there's no way I couldn't agree with that again. Um, not knowing, not knowing that my father was addicted to anything. But when I found out it seemed like everything else just made sense. As far as why it was so easy. It seemed like to become addicted to smoking weed because, I mean, you know, a lot of people in the past used to Equate weed with dope in the 80s. My mom to this day still will call weed dope. But our era, compared to everything else people dealing with with these opiates and everything else, it's like weed is nothing. But If you don't really know what is in it and you can't just stop, you got to really ask yourself why not? And Then if you are able to honestly say that you can't stop, that means you're addicted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I definitely feel, especially now, you know, in my older years I guess that there isn't a genetic component my aunt and I would always say, like man, we're so happy that you know, we turned out different, you know we didn't have any issues or any desires to do drugs and we're not alcoholics and ABCDFG. But then when I for me, when I kind of looked at my life, I'm like, yeah, I feel like I supplemented it with other things, Like I used to shop a lot, like a lot. You know, I needed to have every like. When the, when the metros came out, I needed every. Every new metro that came out, I had it, every single one. I had it, I needed it, I needed to.
Speaker 1:I was what do you call it? Trading in my cars and it was like I want that another, I want I need something different, I need something different. It was always the need for something. I needed to do it. It was just. It was just habit, habit, habit. And so I feel like it shows up addictive behavior just because I wasn't a drug addict or just because I or I'm not a drug addict and wasn't an alcoholic and not an alcoholic. The addictive behaviors show up elsewhere. So I definitely agree that there there's definitely that component. We're almost to the end here, so our next question Do you think and I think you shed some light on this already with the discovery of your father and the things you shared about yourself and your father's relationship, and you know your experiences with abuse Do you think it's possible to forgive someone who suffered from addiction or abuse you in your past?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's always possible to forgive somebody, but as far as it happening, I can't. I can't speak for anybody but myself. It took me a while to forgive my father for the abuse that I remember and it it wasn't easy, but for me, I think I just realized that for one, I'm telling me about his upbringing and his exposure and his experiences and the lack of love that he got from his parents is the reason why I only got so much love and or the abuse from him. Saying all that, to say that, while you might not want to forgive the person, you still have to remind yourself of what they didn't know versus what you do know now. So if your parents didn't have the best example of good parents from their mother and father, then there's, you can expect them to just have a game plan or a tool, a toolbox of things, or examples of leadership or love or whatever you would expect from quote unquote good parents.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what helped me come to the realization that it's not really his fault, because he only knew so much. And again he told me that his father did the same thing to him that he was doing to me. So if he never even got even a hug from his father. It's probably not the first thing that comes to his mind when when he is thinking about his son. So, on the yeah, just going back to the forgiving part, for me it wasn't easy, but I think it's always possible. It's just a matter of what you're willing to accept, meaning as far as accept just understanding, and then moving forward instead of staying stuck on what happened in the past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree. I definitely agree, especially if the person that you need to forgive is willing to help you through the processing and the healing of forgiving them. And you know it's helpful to have an understanding right of you mentioned it a little bit too of like where they came from. Because if they come from their own trauma, like most of I mean, if you like, if you're in my generation, in the 80s, or a generation above me and a generation below me, it's likely that your parents came from a history of trauma, and so having an understanding of that, sharing stories, sharing experiences, kind of helps ease some of that hurt, I think, in my personal opinion. And so, and if that person isn't ready to go with you on that journey, because they can't acknowledge what they did to you, then you have to find ways, through therapy and through you know, self analysis and self care practices, to forgive them.
Speaker 1:Without that, my dad has passed on and I can't get a sorry, I can't get an explanation, I can't get a conversation about the abuse that I went through, and so I've had to work endlessly, and I'm still working, to get through that and to forgive without him, his presence, and that's hard, it's a very, very hard journey, but it's one that must be taken, because it's not going to do me any good to carry the anger, to carry the rage, to carry the the regret. You know all the stuff that comes with it. So it's definitely possible, with or without the person's presence. And so our final question for this episode is if you look back at your life and you remove the abuse, you remove the neglect, you remove the addiction, the addiction that you did experience or you know within yourself or with others around you, you remove the bullying, say you had a healthy, supportive, normal, quote, unquote life. How different, if you can fathom that, how different do you think your life would be?
Speaker 2:I don't even think I know.
Speaker 2:I think for one it would be easier to quote unquote be myself, because I felt like that was one part that I just never really knew the answer to or knew who I was. So that's one thing, and I think it would. I would be more I don't know accepting or like I wouldn't be sold, I wouldn't have been so defensive and ready to kind of clap back or just you know, ready for somebody to trigger me so I could respond with that same energy. So, yeah, those are the first two things that come to mind.
Speaker 2:But on the flip side of that is like I feel that those experiences made me more aware of, like, who I am now and why I'm able to identify other people's energy or where that energy comes from, how I mentioned, like, hurt people, hurt people. Or when it comes to my father and his parenting, due to the parenting he received, like you only know what you know. You know you don't know what you never knew. So if he never knew how to be a good parent, or however you want to word that, you can expect that and I think from all the experiences I have from childhood up until now, I'm just able to identify a lot more than I probably would have been able to if I didn't experience it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, definitely. I think for me I would be, and have been, a lot less angry. I'd be a lot more open to new experiences and new relationships. I wouldn't have the trust issues that I have and had. It would just be different. But all of your experiences lead you, to lead you to somewhere, and I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be the person that I am, and I think that I was given my story for a reason, and, although it's been a very long journey, I'm very proud of where I've come, how far I've come from where I started, and so I think that I can't live with regrets. The things that happened to me happened. I cannot take that away. It's just a journey of healing forward and a journey of forgiveness and a journey of just new life and creating new habits. And, yeah, just go forward. So that wraps up our episode for today. Marcel, my honey, my love, thank you for being here with us. I appreciate your vulnerability as a black man, coming on and being authentic and being honest, and you will be back because we have more lined up to pull you in here. And so, before we close out, do you have any last thoughts you want to share?
Speaker 2:No, I will say just again everybody just pay attention to, like I mentioned earlier, those that are doing favors and kind of use it against you. Just keep your eyes open. You're definitely not alone in whatever you went through in the past, especially with the upbringing. Like I said, if you were born in the 80s, I was born in 88. We probably have a lot of similar stories. So when you hear this, if anything, comment and let us know that you experienced the same thing and maybe let us know what else you want to talk about, Because I know I'm not alone in this.
Speaker 1:That's my line. You just stole it, thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's talk later about that, all right.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening in and joining us and staying tuned on this journey. We appreciate you. As Marcel said, leave a comment, subscribe. Keep a lookout for following episodes dropping every Wednesday. Be kind to one another, take care, be loved Peace.
